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V2 Conversation

I recently promised I would write an article discussing the possibility of a HOGE V2.

Here it is, folks.

The conversation will happen all over the place... Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, Telegram. But I hope this will be the official/central hub where the ideas come together. I very much look forward to your feedback.

 

mumu

DEV
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
66
"I believe that HOGE should have a COMMUNITY OWNED LP and not just a bunch of holders who step up to own the LP"



Let's say we have 200 ETH in the pool and Hoge value equivalent of 200eth.


Now say we have "rug pullmaster 1000" who owns 15 billion Hoge he bought for $115.



Or he could sell 10ETH, leaving 190 left in the pool. Now our price drops. In order to get it back to original price we need 10 eth worth of purchasing. So over next week's it happens. He then immediately dumps another 10eth. This repeats for a couple weeks. People realize one guy is greedy and rinsing up all our community LP. They start to sell their Hoge too.



Before long, our community LP has no eth, and our community itself has had all our personal eth drained from buying hoge just for the greedy rug pullmaster to drain it from our pool.



This is what happens when you have inefficient markets. Liquidity providers believe in the project and the coin so they provide and collect a fee.



If people saw rugmaster trying that, they would yank liquidity. Rug pull master would get tired and dump all his holdings. Our price would have a big drop. Called a fire sale. People would realize the dump is over and quickly buy the dip to take advantage of the low price.



Then we would long-term grow.



Right now we have a lot of early whales (not all) who give nothing to the community but dump. The only way is to wait them out, list on central exchanges or keep growing as a community to where our demand will outpace all the supply from dumping. They want to take their quick profit and leave, which is their choice but we shouldn't encourage their behavor.

I'm not sure what your point was.

We've had many whales sell over the past year. "Rugpullmaster" types have dumped many times. The LP holders do not yank LP when whales sell. Instead they profit off the volume. But this isn't enough to incentivize the community to initiate providing sufficient LP to HOGE that prevents domino effect fudhype machine price swings.

I'm of the opinion that a scenario in which a 3% tax goes entirely to LP over a high volume bullish phase, would build up so much liquidity that as price rises, the impact of selling pressure is reduced to the point that the price movement becomes more bullish in itself.

If people don't care about price, that's cool but I would guess that 99.9% of holders are in it for the gains first and altruistic intrigue second.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
2
Thanks for the feedback, and I agree that there is a credibility problem which is unavoidable when we've been promised and have been contributing to a top 5 exchange, but then after raising the funds it hasn't happened.

As for my articles, I myself was bitterly disappointed when the USA Today article I wrote had such a minimal and short-lived impact. I admitted that frustration on Twitter (which I probably shouldn't have publicly I guess), and I also took a break from writing, in part to self reflect on why things weren't going the way I thought they should. Also I wanted to concentrate on learning to program. Talk about frustrating!

Anyway, I agree that expectations haven't come to fruition. I also agree that my view on taxes is complicated and seems contradictory. I guess what I'm trying to convey is that something thats an advantage in one circumstance can become a liability in another.

Your commentary on credibility is part of why my latest article is so devoid of sugarcoating. It was a lot more like a bandaid that needed to be ripped off than a cheerleading session. It didn't make everyone happy, that's for sure. But a lot of people appreciated the candor of reading what I really think, and I think thats an important step towards better credibility.
Hogefather:


Thanks for the reply; i know it's time consuming to reply to these threads and not always easy to read "less-than-positive" feedback. These types of "Post then reply then reply back" can be grueling. It's definitely respectable to a have candor if your views on a topic (like Hoge) evolve over time (saying "hoge will die" might be a bit over the top!) You are the person I've probably read most on the topic of hoge for the last 9 months. I'm a top 500 holder of Hoge so i have some interest in having this work out-- not a whale but maybe a basking shark.

But let me reiterate one final time, I'm talking about credibility, not necessarily the best technology or smart contracts or smartest way to pivot or maybe even the actual best solution. Credibility is defined as the "quality of being trusted and believed in." Core team said donate for the top 5 exchanges, that means donating for the top 5 exchange. It does not mean "Negotiate with the exchange, hit a roadblock, then have a realization that a v2 coin is better and maybe we'll use the $500k down the road and their might need to be more marketing funding and maybe maybe maybe and egoh , etc" If you can't get the targeted top 5 exchange, the dev team should tell us why without backchannels. Then target crypto.com or gemini or 5 top 30exchanges. Negotiate like we did with gate.io to turn reflections off or whatever needs to be done. Keep your word, then if necessary, put a plan together to navigate to v1 to v2.
 

Emp

Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
19
I'm of the opinion that a scenario in which a 3% tax goes entirely to LP over a high volume bullish phase, would build up so much liquidity that as price rises, the impact of selling pressure is reduced to the point that the price movement becomes more bullish in itself

Every 1% you prevent from moving down, and you also prevent a 1% increase. It's simple math how Uniswap works. People who want to sell are going to sell, just as people who believe in us will want to buy. Big price swings might scare away some investors, but it creates an opportunity for just as many others. More volatility encourages more trading, more trading is more volume, and more volume attracts fees.

Hypothetically tomorrow, let's say bill gates decided he wanted to be generous, he privately buys $45M hoge (not done on Uniswap) and 45M ETH. He adds it to our liquidity pool. So now we have 90M liquidity. Plenty of liquidity. In fact, so much liquidity that we as a community need to buy or sell $45,000,000 USD in one direction to even move our price 50%. A daily volume of $500,000 would move our price 0.55% and that's assuming it was all in one direction.

You might say, "oh well nobody would add that much." but when you have a tax that forces people to add liquidity even when it's not smart, things like that happen look at Safemoon. It forced itself to be range bound and prevented it from ever mooning again.
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
19
I don’t know if the intention of Jesse’s article was to bring some of us long time holders out of the wood works…but I like how it’s playing out.

The credibility issue started long before the top-5 exchange discussions. It was the million dollar fund raising idea, the HOGE “Wheel of Wonder”, all the pre announcements to the announcements, etc. When you add all those event’s together, along with this news regarding our tokenomics and the top-5 exchange, there needs to be transparency and responsibility.

My hope is that this will lead to productive conversation and actions. We aren’t just playing in a sandbox anymore.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Messages
1
I recently promised I would write an article discussing the possibility of a HOGE V2.

Here it is, folks.

The conversation will happen all over the place... Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, Telegram. But I hope this will be the official/central hub where the ideas come together. I very much look forward to your feedback.

I'm a bit afraid of launching a v2 because of the statistics. (only like 6% of coins launching a v2 are succesfull) But I know that if we would launch a v2, it's only going to be in atleast 6 months from now, so if we could gain some more traction and increase holders/volume by then, I believe a v2 launch won't hurt us that much short term. But in the meantime, can't we invent some sort of incentive or system to get our liquidity up? Cause that seems to be our major problem right now.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Messages
24
Problems 1, 2, 4, and 5 are basically the same thing? This article is really un-compelling from a technical standpoint. Seems to be geared at convincing retail investors, not crypto experts.
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
19
Thanks for the feedback, and I agree that there is a credibility problem which is unavoidable when we've been promised and have been contributing to a top 5 exchange, but then after raising the funds it hasn't happened.

As for my articles, I myself was bitterly disappointed when the USA Today article I wrote had such a minimal and short-lived impact. I admitted that frustration on Twitter (which I probably shouldn't have publicly I guess), and I also took a break from writing, in part to self reflect on why things weren't going the way I thought they should. Also I wanted to concentrate on learning to program. Talk about frustrating!

Anyway, I agree that expectations haven't come to fruition. I also agree that my view on taxes is complicated and seems contradictory. I guess what I'm trying to convey is that something thats an advantage in one circumstance can become a liability in another.

Your commentary on credibility is part of why my latest article is so devoid of sugarcoating. It was a lot more like a bandaid that needed to be ripped off than a cheerleading session. It didn't make everyone happy, that's for sure. But a lot of people appreciated the candor of reading what I really think, and I think thats an important step towards better credibility.
Jesse (hogefather)...You say this and then tweet this morning mocking our community. Either you simply don't care or you're not seeing the underlying issue here.

Tweet:
A few quotes I think are relevant here:
"If you lose credibility by just admitting fault, then you didn't have any in the first place"

"Trust is built on credibility, and credibility comes from acting in others' interests before your own"

"Credibility is a leaders currency. With it, he or she is solvent; without it, he or she is bankrupt"

"Credibility takes years to build, but a few hours to destroy"


There's a large task ahead for the "Core Team". If you (Core Team) want us to "grab a shovel" we need to see you (again, core team) see the real issue here.
 
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
56
Jesse (hogefather)...You say this and then tweet this morning mocking our community. Either you simply don't care or you're not seeing the underlying issue here.

Tweet:
A few quotes I think are relevant here:
"If you lose credibility by just admitting fault, then you didn't have any in the first place"

"Trust is built on credibility, and credibility comes from acting in others' interests before your own"

"Credibility is a leaders currency. With it, he or she is solvent; without it, he or she is bankrupt"

"Credibility takes years to build, but a few hours to destroy"


There's a large task ahead for the "Core Team". If you (Core Team) want us to "grab a shovel" we need to see you (again, core team) see the real issue here.
Who is the core team that everyone keeps referring to?

JRocko? Hogeman? Wiser? Hayden? Saint C? Andreea?

Let's be open both ways. If there's a cabal out there that people have a problem with, name names. As far as I know, "core" is long gone and long since replaced with various project managers. Wiser and F do biz dev and Hayden does marketing - everyone else has a discrete role or in charge of a project (those that are willing).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
7
I
Jesse (hogefather)...You say this and then tweet this morning mocking our community. Either you simply don't care or you're not seeing the underlying issue here.

Tweet:
A few quotes I think are relevant here:
"If you lose credibility by just admitting fault, then you didn't have any in the first place"

"Trust is built on credibility, and credibility comes from acting in others' interests before your own"

"Credibility is a leaders currency. With it, he or she is solvent; without it, he or she is bankrupt"

"Credibility takes years to build, but a few hours to destroy"


There's a large task ahead for the "Core Team". If you (Core Team) want us to "grab a shovel" we need to see you (again, core team) see the real

Jesse (hogefather)...You say this and then tweet this morning mocking our community. Either you simply don't care or you're not seeing the underlying issue here.

Tweet:
A few quotes I think are relevant here:
"If you lose credibility by just admitting fault, then you didn't have any in the first place"

"Trust is built on credibility, and credibility comes from acting in others' interests before your own"

"Credibility is a leaders currency. With it, he or she is solvent; without it, he or she is bankrupt"

"Credibility takes years to build, but a few hours to destroy"


There's a large task ahead for the "Core Team". If you (Core Team) want us to "grab a shovel" we need to see you (again, core team) see the real issue here.
I have never been in the core team (though as a curious investor in the project, I interviewed them and put it on YouTube). I am a Hogefather who bought Hoge to give to my newborn daughter when she's old enough. I still very much want that gift to matter.

But let's be clear, I'm a community member just like you, who can say whatever he wants, I'm not some CEO who can be fired. I'm not paid = no strings to control me. I deal with my haters how I want to, with laughter rather than anger.

Also there is no Hoge core, it dissolved months ago.
 
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