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Hoge Ecosystem Draft 2/2

Hogeman-CORE

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Mar 22, 2021
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Firstly, the old ecosystem thread disappeared https://nation.hoge.finance/threads/363/ . I have no idea why, and have asked the administrator of the forum to please recover it because there were excellent comments and suggestions in there.

The ecosystem committee has finished their review and revision of the proposed comments from the old thread (which we cannot see now, sadly). The changelog is below. The group decided on minor changes and clarifications, leaving the majority of the judgement for potential ecosystem projects to the community and individuals during the project application process. The committee would like for you to view this as a starter document, that is a "living document" which can be amended at any time. Because the procedures are not yet standardized, we will have to do our best.

As a final note, the committee felt that this ecosystem draft is best paired with a companion FAQ that provides context, definition, and examples for the potential cases we have right now in Hoge, and ones we may potentially have in the future. Regarding further work, the committee has indicated that they would like this draft to be carried forward by the community in whatever way necessary. They have worked hard and do not wish to be the sole proprieters of the document, and thus are stepping down.

Changelog:
- Added Project Admission Requirements
- Clarified the promotion of "Other Projects" to "Projects may not promote the purchase of investments other than Hoge within the Hoge ecosystem channels.*"

To Address "promoting the purchase of other investments":
One such example is nft projects, how can they promote themselves within the Hoge ecosystem channels? This committee feels that NFTs may be promoted if their advertising is relevant to the projects value or utility, NOT the future currency amount of the nft.

Not Allowed: Buy this pixel art, it will be worth millions!
Why: Promotion is related to the potential growth of the investment, not value or utility to the user.

Allowed: Buy this pixel art, it has cool cinematic characters, and some sweet interpretations of classical art.
Why: The ad focuses on the type of art for the nft, not the dollar amount of the nft.

Not Allowed: 100 different unique types in this nft collection, the ones not bought are burned!
Why: Uniqueness is synonymous with investment potential for nfts. (This is debatable, the community may amend whenever they wish)

Allowed: We built 100 different types so you can choose your favorite from this nft collection.
Why: The promotion relates to the experience of the user, not the investment potential of the artwork.

The hope is that the community will take this forward in a way that builds healthy relationships and prevents the "cross-shilling" of projects as investments. And remember, these are just guidelines, every hoge platform is independently owned and managed, and can decide what is appropriate for themselves.

Committee: Suspect (reddit), Trout (telegram), Hogepups (Telegram), Jesse Rogers (Telegram)
Support From: Hogeman (organizer), Andreea (representing Hoge Association), Tammi (organizer)
 

Attachments

  • Hoge_Ecosystem_Proposal.pdf
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Joined
Mar 17, 2021
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1. This proposal seems to introduce new barriers to creating projects. Also unclear what qualifies as a "project". None of these (e.g., HOGE NFT Marketplace or HAI) has gone through this process. But I guess we'll see how it plays out. We should probably mark this PDF as "advisory" / "recommendations form the working group" rather than have it be an official document.

2. Why have "formal" ecosystem inclusion anyways? Ecosystem is an organic thing. Just let it be. I don't think we have enough community participation to formally in/out every project, and per point 1., this will likely just disincentivize new projects. Even if there is a formal process, there will still be controversy. I doubt everyone will accept "community" decisions. You haven't described the vote process in the pdf. Is it majority vote? Is it weighted by amount of Hoge? What if something gets 55% of the vote? Do we expect the other 45% to "just back it"? But again, I guess we'll see how it plays out.

3. I dislike Hoge Nation. I suspect many people do. I don't think projects want to use this as a "source of truth". Reddit or Hoge Discord would be preferred for conversation, or... get it on @hogeannouncements channel on Telegram (conversation under each announcement is threaded). We need more announcements. Projects should establish their own channels / source of truth, and IMO, social links should drive traffic to those channels rather than to Hoge Nation.
 

jrocko3

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BIZ
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Mar 17, 2021
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First and foremost thanks to the few members of the community who put this together.
Feedback:

“Projects may not promote the purchase of investments other than Hoge within the Hoge ecosystem channels.*” yes I also see the note at the bottom that this will be explained in the future. To clarify though…

Does this mean VP can not discuss their own token in their own chat and can only discuss Hoge. It seems a bit poorly worded. Perhaps “Projects may not promote the purchase of investments other than those within the Hoge ecosystem.*” If the problem is dedicated chats, we could just create a new chat or channel for Hoge Ecosystem where all projects can congregate and leave hoge telegram only for hoge. I’ve always assumed though that Hoge Telegram would be the ecosystem channel already as it’s the overarching brand.

Then there is this statement:

“No project can promote content or partner with content that does not align with the mission, vision, and culture of Hoge.”

Who’s responsibility is it to decide this? Does this mean this group of people decides what tokens get listed on hogeswap, Unifaucet. They then dictate who sponsors hoge university videos? Seems a bit of an overreach. Perhaps something like, “No project can promote content or partner with content that portrays illegal use of drugs, sex, etc.”

Then we have this one, “Projects are subject to the Admission Process and community approval to be admitted to the Ecosystem.”

As Z pointed out, this question is nice but what is the standard. 50.1% votes, min 100 dollars in hoge or 10k? More votes depending on bag size? Etc. There is no clear standard and from my understanding the dao platform itself doesn’t dictate this and it allows for open interpretation and setup by the person starting the initiative.

The one thing never mentioned that was addressed in a previous thread.
1) Transparency - how does group benefit Hoge? (Funds, marketing, brand awareness)
2) Accountability - how do we gauge if the group is doing what they are saying they are doing. Is there going to be some sort of 30 - 90 day checkpoint to ensure this, call it a probation period.
 

kaefers

MOD
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Mar 17, 2021
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I am largely with @HanHoge on this. The project approval process is unnecessarily cumbersome and rigid, not something fitting the entrepreneurial nature of a DeFi project such as HOGE. I also agree that "project" isn't well-defined, and neither is the term "harmful projects", and who will decide on what is considered as "harmful". If such process or similar means were to be implemented in the future, although I clearly do not recomment this to be done in such manner at all, then such process should retrospectively be applied to all existing projects within or in some fashion associated with the HOGE ecosystem , as a matter of transparency and fairness to all community members. Also, agreed on Hoge Nation clearly not being the hub and forum that its creators intended it to be. Hoge Nation is hardly visited but by a few, whereas other existing channels such as telegram or discord are a lot more suitable.
 
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Apr 5, 2021
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I guess at the end of the day DAO will decide which projects are annexed into the ecosystem.

As far as TG goes, i think conversations about any ecosystem project should be allowed so long as it’s not being promoted for sale (“hey buy this token because it’s gonna moon hard”). After all, if hoge is the overarching brand, it should allow these type of discussions (look at toad chat for example)

discussions in tg channel should be on the merits of the project and how it helps the overall ecosystem. We gotta refrain from calling new projects as “scam” even if we don’t like it. Not all projects will survive. Nobody could’ve predicted that hoge would last this long and look where we have gotten so far.

you can’t be defi and not act defi. In other words, we have to be very careful if this “approval process” has to go through “core” or “association” first before going to a general DAO vote.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
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Well-written, however, I would like to know how the voting process will work. Will people with a bigger bag be able to have a stronger vote, I hope so.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
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Well-written, however, I would like to know how the voting process will work. Will people with a bigger bag be able to have a stronger vote, I hope so.

Im not a fan of doing it this way tbh. As someone who bought millions for $100 shouldn't automatically have a stronger vote over someone who bought the same amount for $100,000.

I'd be more inclined to favour a subscription based service where by people pay a monthly fee to be able to vote. E.g $10 a month, people are able to choose how active they want to be within the project/ part of the DAO and all votes hold equal weight.
 

Emp

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Apr 6, 2021
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Im not a fan of doing it this way tbh. As someone who bought millions for $100 shouldn't automatically have a stronger vote over someone who bought the same amount for $100,000.

I'd be more inclined to favour a subscription based service where by people pay a monthly fee to be able to vote. E.g $10 a month, people are able to choose how active they want to be within the project/ part of the DAO and all votes hold equal weight.
Yeah, I think voting should be based on 1) time holding hoge 2) amount of hoge 3) some equal weight vote for the small fishes (like a popular vote)

Also, when can we see this start? seems like people could start the process to join the ecosystem once the forum is posted?
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
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Good work.

My question is, why is Hoge Nation the appropriate forum? Why not use Reddit? There are far more active users on there, and it will have the additional benefit of creating free hype / marketing for Hoge. Casual observers might pop by and see that Hoge has irons in the fire and buy in.
 
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